30. A good car crash with Stuart Goldsmith, Climate Comedian

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James Piper: Hello. Welcome to Talking Rubbish, a weekly podcast delving deep into the world of recycling and discussing the truth behind snappy headlines and one sided stories. I'm Jay Piper, author of the Rubbish Book. And I'm joined by Robbie Staniffor, my Far From Rubbish friend. And we are joined today by Stuart Goldsmmanith.

Stuart Goldsmith: I'm m not supposed to say hello at this point, but I am m.

James Piper: Here and Stuart is an actual comedian, not a wannabe like me and Robbie. And he's our, Far From Rubbish guest.

Stuart Goldsmith: Oh, nice. Nice branding from Rubbish. I've had better intros.

James Piper: I'll be honest with you. I've got to warn the listeners already. As I've said many times, 99% of reviews are very positive. And then there's 1% that says specifically Robbie. We just laugh too much.

Stuart Goldsmith: Oh, yeah.

James Piper: And so bringing a comedian on is the most stupid thing we could ever.

Stuart Goldsmith: No, the most important thing you can do is pursue what you want to do and screw the haters, man.

Robbie Staniforth: Oh, I be true to one side.

Stuart Goldsmith: Yeaheah. This is insight number one from a comedian. Wow'forget. About do what you wa want to do.

James Piper: Did episode 10 with Nick. I got feedback that it was a bit weird that the guest was kind of sat there and we weren't interacting with the guests. So we've made a point, haven't we, of just having the guest to warm them up, but not introducing themill after we've done our middle win Tr that's.

Stuart Goldsmith: Weirdarently we guest and you pretend that they don't exist.

Robbie Staniforth: It's awkward as hell.

Stuart will have just appeared on Live at the Apollo

James Piper: So we will introduce Stuart. I mean, we're going to have to introduce him now. He said hello. So yes, Hel, I mean, as you're listening to this, Stuart will have just appeared on Live at the Apollo. Oh, yes, you're about to have this go out. I mean, we've got international listeners, so we should probably explain what it is. What is Live at the Apollo?

Stuart Goldsmith: It is a television programme, which is performed in London's Hammersmith Apollo, to. I think it's a 4,000 capacity venue. So it is a big old gig. And the lovely thing about that venue is it's also televised. That's key. The lovely thing about that venue is it's the biggest possible small room. As soon as you get past that kind of size, or most rooms, if they were 4,000 people, it would just feel like a sort of wet we auditorium. But this is designed a long time ago by clever people, really. It feels intimate.

James Piper: perfect. What A perfect intro.

Climate comedian is what you self describes on LinkedIn

So climate comedian is what you self.

Stuart Goldsmith: Describe as's my brand on LinkedIn.

Robbie Staniforth: Self identification?

Stuart Goldsmith: Yeah, I think so because there are so few people doing comedy about the climate. Like I made a decision. Bit better.

James Piper: It's quite a miserable topic at the moment, isn't it?

Stuart Goldsmith: Thanks mate. I think I've do all right. I've been a comic for 20 years, right. I've never had a real job, never had a salary. I was a street performer at Covent Garden before that many years ago and then I've been stand up for 20 years and then about three years ago I started doing stuff about the climate largely as a means of. I can see now looking back, it was as a means of processing my eco dread. Because you always write about. I always write about whatever's on my mind. Like I'll just write whatever I think and then I'll look at it afterwards and go, oh, clearly that shows about the anxiety about being a parent or what have you. So I started to get more and more into that and now I cannot be bothered talking about anything else. Great. I really have lent so hard into it that although for me there is like a marketing question in terms of like, I'm a climate comedian on LinkedIn but my website is like I'm a comediandian and I also do stuff about climate. But even that, it's just all, it's all I want to bother talking about. If I come away from a gig, like I've got two young children and if I go away and gig somewhere in a Club I've spent 20 years building a relationship with, it burns a weekend or it burns a bedtime so it's got to be worth doing. And the truth is I became accustomed to doing well at gigs. I'm not getting carried shoulder high out the room every so often, but I know what it's like to make an audience laugh really hard and previously it just felt like m yum yum yum. Lovely. APPLAUSE no art I wonderfululation Y exactlyly.

Robbie Staniforth: I'd love to get some one day. Ye maybe we will James.

Stuart Goldsmith: It's super fun but it is not nourishing in the long term. I don't think so now if I do a gek I mean I'd never do this now but maybe two years ago I would find that I would sometimes do a gig and not talk about the climate and I just kind of, what was the point?

James Piper: I can't tell you how off track we areeah.

Robbie Staniforth: Talk about a bus intro. I see James in Hisus. I know James very well. He's getting nervous about.

Stuart Goldsmith: Yeah, this isn't the structure that we usually.

James Piper: I'm a very organised individual'very. Organised.

Stuart Goldsmith: This is an organic structure.

James Piper: No, I am loving it. Briefly. yes, I'm lo me.

Robbie Staniforth: Fine.

James Piper: Things I've noticed this week, the format.

Stuart Goldsmith: Go. Go on, go on. You do your.

Robbie: I'm very interested in your view on ocean bound plastic

James Piper: I would be very interested in your view on this steuart. Because I was, on LinkedIn and I saw a promotion for some. I, can't remember what it was actually. I should have added more to my notes, but it used the words ocean bound plastic. Now, we've all heard about this, right, where people make product and they say, this product is made from ocean bound.

Robbie Staniforth: Could have ended up in the ocean.

James Piper: And I just think as a marketing.

Stuart Goldsmith: Spin, my first thought. Fcina we intend for this to end up in the sea.

James Piper: It's a bitir.

Stuart Goldsmith: This is ocean bound pl.

James Piper: I'm glad we've got you here. I'm glad we're announcing that you

00:05:00

James Piper: are here to get your live view on what you think of this. Like.

Stuart Goldsmith: But so what it means is it's. They're diverting previously ocean bound plastic.

James Piper: Well, yeah. So the risk with this is what they do is they take, like a pet bottle and they say, well, some PE2 bottles might end up in the ocean. So when I recycle it or when I turn this into my new product, it was ocean bound. Not it did end up in the ocean. Bo was going, not it was found on a beach.

Stuart Goldsmith: But we find broadly pet. That's polyethylene Toepthyate. My drag name.

Robbie Staniforth: Oh, Robbie. Oh, my God'so. Much better.

James Piper: We need to pause the podcast here. Oh, my goodness. So Robbie has had a battle with this word and we've had this ongoing joke and just in last week's episode, yes, I made Robbie say pet, which I don't say because I let Robie say it.

Robbie Staniforth: no, I'm nevernna say.

James Piper: That was beautiful. Do it again.

Stuart Goldsmith: Polyethylene athe.

James Piper: Oh, my goodness, Robbie, we're learning so much. anyway, pt's probably not what they.

Robbie Staniforth: I have lost my job by the end of this episode. You're not looking for a podcast partner.

Stuart Goldsmith: You.

James Piper: It is definitely the ultimate marketing spin to say ocean bound plastic, because it is just taking a category of plastics and saying maybe that will end up in the ocean. So the product I'm making is prevented at ending up in the ocean. But it's like. Because, like. And, we haven't, the reason I mentioned this is because we need to do some stuff on Ocean Plastics, which we do. It's really interesting that people use this marketing claim and I just saw it come up and I thought, oh, that that's going to remind me to do some.

Stuart Goldsmith: So I've got a bitause two comments on this. What if we'still in the intro?

James Piper: Why not? Yeah.

Stuart Goldsmith: Is this the.

James Piper: I've got a feeling we're going to get to the end of the intro and it'll be done cred and we'll say the intro was also the outro and lovely jobs. Good.

Stuart Goldsmith: I have this which is made by Ocean Bottle Oan Bott oce. I take this on stage, carry it everywhere and. And I say on stage, this is reclaimed Ocean plastic. I that different because at the end of its life, if you can take it back to the ocean lobby, that's the thing. So that's the sort of thing I will do whereby I'll say, hey, listen, I no longer drink water from plastic bottles. Yes. I don't do that anymore because it's much easier to stick to that if you kind of make a vowel. Know more of that. So I'll talk about that and then I'll do that joke on the end of it that's kind of irreverent and stupid. So it's not like I'm going, me, me, me. It's more like I'm going, here's a thing that might help and here's a.

James Piper: Stupid joke on about it and it'good I mean, ultimately we know, we feel that what helps people remember stuff is humour. And so we always try and tell. We always try and make each other laugh, don't we? In our podcast and we're do an okay, I do a good job of making you laugh. You do a reasonable job of making me laugh.

Stuart Goldsmith: Status challenge.

Robbie Staniforth: But anyone would say that they do a good job of making me laugh because I'm just mostly laughing.

James Piper: Yeah, yeah, you just say, hi, Robie.

Stuart Goldsmith: Lovely, love.

The other aspect of this I'm keen to talk about is greenwash

The other aspect of this I'm keen to talk about is the greenwash or the Greenw Wash question mark. There's an upward inflection. Greenw Wash Ocean Band plastic.

James Piper: Let's go for it.

Stuart Goldsmith: because one of my of the most kind of infuriating chafing examples of this was in one of the bins at the Edinbgh Festival. They got these great big bins in the street and I've noticed, I noticed this last year or year before last year they have stickers on the bins with an infinity symbol.

James Piper: Oh, y with arrows.

Stuart Goldsmith: Go around the infinity symbolay and it says something like. I don't want to misquote it. It says something like, your rubbish, your litter is. They don't say recycled, they say it's used to make energy. and what they mean is they burn it.

James Piper: Y.

Stuart Goldsmith: Right.

James Piper: That's what they mean.

Stuart Goldsmith: But they've done a thing like the infinite cycle of making plastic, throwing it away and then burning it.

James Piper: I think that ocean bottle has the Infinity logo as they deserve it.

Stuart Goldsmith: Right.

James Piper: Ah, I think that's deserved. I think the ocean bottle does have.

Stuart Goldsmith: They're taking it back out and using it again.

James Piper: This is when energy recovery is quite bold to suggest thatub infinity.

Stuart Goldsmith: It's such clever greenwash because it's a defensible position. They could go, oh, no, that's just a wiggly. Oh, did you think we meant infinity? No, we were just saying gets round.

Robbie Staniforth: Goes round a system.

Stuart Goldsmith: It circulates naughty from the bin to the fire to the sky where it stops circulating. And then actually if the plants one day take the carbon dioxide out this guy, then it's Circle of life.

Robbie Staniforth: Yes.

James Piper: Y. That's great. I mean, we've had lots of discussions, haven't we, about bins because.

Robbie Staniforth: Oh, God.

James Piper: We have a bit of a bins spotting thing. We try and get people to write in with bins they've spotted. And we had the University of Cambridge. It's quite funny. It made us feel like we were a big podcast because, yeah, we had someone at the University of Cambridge say, this bin says, what was it? Resource recovery.

Robbie Staniforth: Yeah, that's it.

James Piper: And we were questioning what that might be. And then, like the day that episode went out, the guy who is in charge of the bins at University of Cambridge, message to say, I've just been listening to the podcast. Here's what it all means.

Robbie Staniforth: We got to the guy.

James Piper: Yeah. And he's doing a tender at the moment and he was telling me all about the changes they're going to make. So it'really nice. So maybe the Edinburgh fringe people are listening. Oh, it could be true. And if they would like advice on, what to put on their bins, we probably wouldn't suggest the Infinity logo.

Steuart says he needed solar panels to go off grid

A second. A second thing I noticed this week we're on to, part two of my int.

Robbie Staniforth: This usually comes in at about minute three of the podcast.

James Piper: Yes, normally. So

00:10:00

James Piper: I just. And I'll be interested. Actually, I'm really glad you've told us your presence, Stuart. Because I'm interested in your view on this as well.

Robbie Staniforth: Much more interested in Steuart'than mine. And I am too offended by that.

James Piper: It's true. Well, I am looking for a new co host, but that's like, if you want it, you know, it'd be quite fun, I think. So I decided I was going to get solar panels on my roof. Right. So I did a carbon literary course last year.

Stuart Goldsmith: Oay.

James Piper: And they asked you to pledge that you're going to do something. And I was like, I need solar panels, I need to go off grid. That's what I want to do to help.

Robbie Staniforth: That's going to be my action.

James Piper: Yeah. Because I've got an electric car. And it just felt like the right thing to do. That led to a cascade of events, including me having to replace a roof, because I was like, did you try? No, no, no, I. Not at all. But I was about to get the solar panels put on and then the solar panel company were like, these solar panels are going to last like 25 years minimum. That roof's going to last like six months, minimum, maximum.

Stuart Goldsmith: Sorry.

James Piper: so I was like, okay, I need a new roof. So I got a roofer to come and replace the roof first before I put the solar panels on. And they created quite a lot of waste. They created tiles and wood and all sorts of things and they left it in the driveway and they said, we're going to arrange a waste collection company to come and collect it. And so I said, oh, great. Okay. So the waste collection company turns up and it was only as they drove off, I thought, do you know, I haven't checked. They had a waste carrier's licence and I don't think people do this. So, whenever I'm booking waste for myself, I will always ask to see their waste carrier's licence before they come. Because if they fly tip your waste, the council come to you and say, well, how did you check that? The person who you were, do they? Yeah, the council will find you, not the company. They will find the company too, but they'll be looking for you. And they will say, can you prove that you used a legitimate company? And the way to do that is to check they're registered with a wate carrier'license Now, I would always do that if I was managing my own waste, but the roofing company had managed these guys. So I actually think the liability is with the roofing company, not me.

Stuart Goldsmith: Okay, is this you laying some sort of legal groundwork for? I refer to my podcast of the 15. Yes.

James Piper: Inane. Yes. So then I thought, well, I better, get this checked. So I emailed the roofing company saying, can I have a copy of their waste carrier's licence? And it went mysteriously quiet. Now. Then I just kept, I kept che this guy cannot understand why I was. He doesn't know we do a podcast, doesn't know I'm mean recycling. He thinks I'm a weirdo. M who was like mailing him day and night. Yeah, mailing him day and night. Ask him for a waste carrier's licence. And, in the end they sent me itk and the screenshot was after I'd asked. The screenshot was like 10 minutes before they.

Stuart Goldsmith: They'd got one.

James Piper: So they'd gone and got one.

Stuart Goldsmith: Okay.

James Piper: So I thought, well, that's good. Well, that's good, that's good. I've helped a company, but this was just a, you know, like an observation that maybe we should ask Cape billowing in the wind.

Stuart Goldsmith: I've helped, I've helped.

Robbie Staniforth: I've done my bit.

James Piper: But, it was a really good learn for me because I normally do it and it was because it was a supplier. I didn't do it. And I guess lots of our listeners won't know they have to do that.

Stuart Goldsmith: So I think I'a nice story to ry that's good. It does occur when in the first part of that story, a little part of me was thinking, that's quite a good hustle, isn't it? If you're a roofer, start being a solar panels guy and arrive and go, ooh, this roof isn't going toa last.

James Piper: Oh, that's clever.

Stuart Goldsmith: And then you talk people into getting roomofs done.

James Piper: That is clever. And then someone. Well, I got three opinions on the roof ###us I really did not want to be to replace this roof. So I did get a few opinions back. but you're right, you know, that would be great, wouldn't it? It's just the same guy with a beard. A fake beard.

Stuart Goldsmith: Yes. A selection of hats.

James Piper: Yeah, that's nice.

Environment agency granted a waste carrier licence to a deceased West Highland terrier

Robbie Staniforth: I've just been looking up the waste carrier story that amuses me the most.

James Piper: Oh, here we go.

Robbie Staniforth: Here we go. In 2017, you knowia they'just down the road. They're an environmental consultancy. They reported that the environment agency granted a waste carrier licence to a deceased West Highland terrier named Oscar without conducting background checks. So wonder what the background checks were like. Given that the screenshot was on.

Stuart Goldsmith: Given the fact that you seem to be able to get it 10 minutes after you email dog carers.

Robbie Staniforth: No deceased dog.

Stuart Goldsmith: Tick box. If you would like a waste carrier.

James Piper: Now it's tick. I'm done in the def. So I need to defend a little bit. So the screenshot was of that on that date. but they hadn't appeared on the register for a while. So I have checked. They appeared on the. So just to defend the. Well, do I have to defend the government? But just to defend the government. No, not to defend the unnamed company. They definitely didn't have a Was carer.

Stuart Goldsmith: Gosh.

James Piper: I have like a couple of things here that we could go into, but I just think we're so off track we should just ignore them. Save. Got him. We got him.

Stuart Goldsmith: He's agreed to ditch.

Robbie Staniforth: I have never once got him off track.

Stuart Goldsmith: Why don't you close the laptop, mate?

James Piper: Upap a chair because it's doing the recording.

Stuart Goldsmith: So that's fair.

Pringles has green wash and energy from waste

James Piper: Alan on LinkedIn. I'm sorry, we haven't covered Pringles. We'll be doing that next week.

Stuart Goldsmith: I'll quickly tell me about Pringles.

James Piper: Need do it next.

Stuart Goldsmith: Here's what I do with Pringles. I get the tube and I stamp on it so the metal bit on the end comes out and then I recycle the metal bit and then I recycle the cardboard bit. But it has a silver internal bit. So that's.

James Piper: Well, it can be res. According to Pringles. Okay, now, the way this work, this is quite complicated. So way we are going to talk.

Stuart Goldsmith: I don't want

00:15:00

Stuart Goldsmith: to st on next week.

James Piper: Don't worry, Alan. We're going to talk about Pringles.

Robbie Staniforth: Pringles, in it has got green wash and energy from waste. This whole segment could be the end to the intro. We could make it so we talked about any different way.

James Piper: So Pringles. So the way cardboard works when it's lined is you need to have 90% cardboard and 10% another material in order to be deemed recyclable.

Stuart Goldsmith: Gotcha.

James Piper: Now, Alan's comment was but the metal. So what happened?

Stuart Goldsmith: who is Alan? Is he the guy on the pry? Linc goingy with the moustache on the. Mr. Pringle.

James Piper: Mr. Pringle.

Stuart Goldsmith: Alan Pringle.

James Piper: Alan Pringle. As, Alan Pringle has asked because he understands that when the Pringle tube goes to a paper mill, what they do is they filter out the metal. So they'll shred up the paper, extract the metal and filter out. Now the metal will go off for Incineration. Exactly.

Robbie Staniforth: So what do you think about energy from waste for the little bits of metal left over in a tube? Fine. Because it's very hard to do anything with that tiny little amount of stuff or whatever, but just bung the whole Pringles tube in energy from waste.

Stuart Goldsmith: Ah, ah, gotcha.

Robbie Staniforth: We want you to recycle the cardboard.

James Piper: But Alan doesn't think it's fine and I think that's a fair comment.

Stuart Goldsmith: It's like, well, it's one of those things. If we had infinite budget we would find a way to do something with those tiny little bits.

James Piper: It's just not economic.

Stuart Goldsmith: Like I did a thing for Bristol Waste Transferer and I went and did some kind of little videos for them and put them on Instagram and stuff. And I was saying why don't you come around and collect soft plastic.

James Piper: Oh y.

Stuart Goldsmith: In the trucks, in the vans that you've got and the bin lorries. And they said oh we would do and we probably will do before too long. It's just at the moment we don't have the budget for it. And then I found out that when you take it back to I take it back to Big Tesco, you know, and you've got like a thing where you can stuff in, I know it very well. So I thought it was being recycled and then I realised, oh no, they call it a take back scheme, not a recycling scheme because a small amount of it gets recycled and the rest gets burnt for energy.

Robbie Staniforth: We've got news for you.

Stuart Goldsmith: Go on.

Robbie Staniforth: We're literally in the process company where we're recording today Ecourity in the process of certifying the stuff that does get recycled from Aldi, from others.

Stuart Goldsmith: Percentage of what the squegy stuff that goes in there.

Robbie Staniforth: Exactly work. Some of it does, not all of it, but the stuff that does is going to be a verification system that says it goes to this mrph. Transversation, get sorted. Then it goes on to this place to get granulated up and turned into a park bench or whatever it is.

James Piper: So this is such a good revision episode for our listeners because the beauty of like So the way to think about this and the simple way to think about it is if you put flexible plastic in your bin at home, in your black bin, it will get incinerated. No question. It will all 100% get rid.

Stuart Goldsmith: Does nothing go to landfill anymore? I thought some, not really.

James Piper: So in terms of percentage, about 45% of waste is recycled, about 50% goes to incineration. Gotcha and about 5% goes to landfill.

Stuart Goldsmith: Okay, cool.

James Piper: So landfill tax is so high that it makes way more sense to send it for energy from waste. The challenge with energy from waste, which is one of our episodes, is that what 10st is people say, well, this is the lowest form of electricity because we are decarbonized as a grid. Burning your waste makes it quite carbon intensive and it's the lowest form. What they don't do is then compare it to landfill because if you send your waste to landfill, it releases methane and greenhouse gases. So it's better, better burn sometimes, depending.

Stuart Goldsmith: On what the material is, and get carbon dioxide from it rather well. They can capture le it the carbon dioxide, of course.

James Piper: Yes, of them don't, but they could.

Stuart Goldsmith: And no, you could use that to make grey hard.

James Piper: I mean, really, recycling should be a lot higher. Y that's the truth. Recycling should be way higher than 45%. What we can't recycle should go to incineration. And landfill is like a last resort.

Stuart Goldsmith: There are lots we can't incinerate. We should fashion into hats and we should find another waye.

James Piper: There, are lots of people who think landfill is better than incineration. So we have to be careful here.

Stuart Goldsmith: But because we might discover in the future, oh, we've got this bacteria that needs loads of plastic and it can turn it into energy. And if we've got it all in landfill, we can go quick, open up cell 16A. We can get the stuff back. Right?

James Piper: Something like that.

Stuart Goldsmith: Yeah. That mean eium.

Often the packaging only makes up 5% of a product's impact

I think they did that with lithium.

James Piper: So what we said on the flexible plastic one is, look, flexible plastic as a material is incredible because you can. Because it's likeweight. It's easy to get stuff too. Like a crisp packet.

Stuart Goldsmith: Am I bread, anything else?

James Piper: A crisp packet in any other material is going to be quite carbon intensive and difficult to transport and all those kind of things. So. And often the packaging only makes up 5% of a product's impact and it's the bit we see. So it's all we talk about.

Stuart Goldsmith: Yes.

James Piper: But it only makes up a small.

Stuart Goldsmith: Amount because the rest of the impact has to do with the transport and the growing and the carbon.

James Piper: Yeah.

Robbie Staniforth: Yesual production of the stuff that's in the pack is really gotcha.

Episode two is our coffee pod episode because coffee pods contain five grammes

James Piper: So episode two is our coffee pod episode because coffee pods contain five grammes of coffee and if you go into a barista, into a shop, they use 16 grammes of coffee.

Stuart Goldsmith: Yes.

James Piper: And actually the difference in coffee between a brewed coffee and, a Coffee pot is so

00:20:00

James Piper: significant that a coffee pot is the second best way to get coffee after instant. And would never believe it in terms.

Stuart Goldsmith: Of carbon run m that by me. But that's because it's less coffee. So what you're saying is. So I switched out my pod machine in order to get like a barist.

Robbie Staniforth: Into k machine, which I have.

Stuart Goldsmith: So if you want to reduce look like you do.

James Piper: So like with anything in the world, it's complicated. If your goal in life is to reduceast, packaging. Sorry, not plastic. Your goal in life is to reduce packaging. You've made the right decision. Your goal in life is to reduce your carbon emissions. You've made the wrong decision.

Stuart Goldsmith: O man.

James Piper: The best thing to do is to use instant, which is only two grammes of coffee, because they've freez right it.

Stuart Goldsmith: but I can walk around the shop and buy a bag of, ground up coffee beans. Whereas to get the pods, I would need to get them delivered.

James Piper: Now you can get pods from the shop.

Stuart Goldsmith: not near me, I can't. Yeah, sure. No, not every shop. I can't get pods in my local places. Where?

James Piper: Your local place?

Stuart Goldsmith: I could do it. I could do it in Big Tesco when I'm Big Tesco.

James Piper: Yeah.

Stuart Goldsmith: Sticking me flexible plastic in the bin.

James Piper: And asa Now, ASDA have just signed up to the pod recycling scheme. So you can take your pods back to ASDA and they can get.

Stuart Goldsmith: I never. I never trusted anyone who said they'recycled pods. I have never me the pods.

James Piper: I never put a pod in the landfill. And I know where they go. I've been to that facility. I've watched them be recycled.

Stuart Goldsmith: Hook me up. I want to go.

James Piper: Ye, you can go.

Stuart Goldsmith: See, I'm imaging a dude with a hammer. Bang.

James Piper: It is amazing. There are a lot of pods that goes through that method. But, I guess that's the problem. It's like if you want to reduce packaging, you made the right decision.

Stuart Goldsmith: Sure.

James Piper: If you want to reduce carbon, but.

Stuart Goldsmith: Even the packaging is not that bad because they're metal pods. So that goes round around forever.

James Piper: Corre if you use metal as opposed to plastic.

James: I'm hoping your 25 million podcast downloads transition to hundreds of thousands

Correcte Episode 2 Now, what I'm hoping.

Stuart Goldsmith: Is that I do every single.

James Piper: No, it's clear that you want me toize every hop.

Robbie Staniforth: We need that listener. We need that one.

James Piper: Do you know what m I'm hoping is? We're going to talk about your podcast in a second. That your 25 million downloads on your podcast somehow transition to hundreds of thousands of listeners, to us and for sure they come to us and go, well, I'm going to listen to Stuart, and they will listen to you and you'll be orating beautifully about the climate and then they will go, dady hell. I need to listen to episode great and I need to listen to episode 14.

Robbie Staniforth: That was clever, James. I was a little bit devious.

Stuart Goldsmith: I'm gonna let you into a little, comedy secret here. This is what everyone does with all podcasts, really. But also, also, here's the funny thing. I have this, challenge as a climate comedian whereby, I think it would benefit the climate if there were loads more climate comedians. But as someone who's been in comedy for 20 years, I'm special at the moment, so can you guys give me a year?

Robbie Staniforth: Like, competition's good in most marketplaces, but not in min.

Stuart Goldsmith: Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. Exact. Well, it is, you know, and I want, like, in America, there's a climate comedy cohort and I know some of them. They're working on that. This is amazing guy in the University of Boulder, Colorado, who I've done some work with online, and he's very kind of. He's really excited about comedy as a means of climate communication. I have, just written this week, I've written an ebook about, using comedy insights from comedians for csos about how to engage people on the subjects of climate, like communication kind of insight.

Robbie Staniforth: Okay.

Stuart Goldsmith: So I'm really super into it and I'm just aware that I'm also, because of the nature of my podcast, which, in short, for your listeners is, in depth, I was m supp to say arguments. I don't think they'argum in depth. Argum in depth conversations with comedians about their creative process from like so many. Every famous comment, you know, has been on it. I've been doing it for years and years in many ways, because of that network. I do keep thinking the most impactful thing I could do for climate is buttonhole my most famous friends and go, you know, not only should you start making sure that you have reusable cups, all your venues do. I mean, you should really le into that. You're in a scoldi scoldie way. Come on, we'd mates making f. There.

Robbie Staniforth: Is a way of doing it.

Stuart Goldsmith: Look exactly shortut exactly.

Robbie Staniforth: This is really what you should do rather than have to go away and do all the research yourself about on the one hand this, on the other hand that just come with a solution.

Stuart Goldsmith: 100%. I should do a PDF for the entire comedy industry that says here's how you can easily and simply do the.

Robbie Staniforth: Thing and here's why.

Stuart Goldsmith: And I will get round to that. But give me a year.

Now we have a new sponsor and I committed. I committed as part of the sponsorship to do the ad within the first 50%

James Piper: Now we have a new sponsor and I committed.

Stuart Goldsmith: Is that me? Am I the sponsor? Yes. You can give usering. You can have my bottle.

James Piper: I committed as part of the sponsorship to do the ad within the first 50% of the episode.

Stuart Goldsmith: Okay.

Robbie Staniforth: Better crack o. It's mess.

Stuart Goldsmith: Is it? We can drop it in. Let's do it now. We'll drop it in.

James Piper: Do ecos sure.

Stuart Goldsmith: Oh, of course. I look great. Great gang. I've always. I've always had a soft spot for e CAS surety and I tell you what, whenever it is that I need someone to do the thing that they do, I always come to them first.

James Piper: We basically. I'll tell you what was happening. We were paying for the podcast ourselves.

Stuart Goldsmith: Okay.

James Piper: We don't have any money left.

Stuart Goldsmith: Sure.

James Piper: And so we thought we need a sponsor but we don't want to give ads to the listeners. We're really enjoying the fact that we just have the one app.

We've partnered with Eco Surety to help brands navigate tricky recycling issues

Stuart Goldsmith: Oh, you want

00:25:00

Stuart Goldsmith: a brand partner.

James Piper: So we found a brand.

Robbie Staniforth: So you know all about.

Stuart Goldsmith: Sure. So we'd like brought to you an association with Eco Surety. We're emphatically not rubbish.

James Piper: Okay. We'd like to take a moment to thank our brand partner Eco Surety who are on a mission to do the thing that they do really well. And they help brands navate that tricky thing with impactful data things and expert things. But that's not all. They also collaborate on some incredible recycling things. And for those tough to recycle materials, if you're an organation looking to make smarter choices, they've got your back. Check them out@ecourity.com I just didn't want to tell Stuart what we did. I quite liked.

Stuart Goldsmith: I like it Crowded in mystery.

James Piper: Lovely.

Stuart Goldsmith: Never know if you've ever heard of Eco Surety and thought about using them, let me say that would be the right choice.

James Piper: Do you think that's going to pass by our marketing team?

Stuart Goldsmith: That to me sounds like a Monday morning reshoot.

James Piper: Also, I've left it with what the hell do they do? So you're gonna go to their website to have a look, right?

Robbie Staniforth: Y who are they?

James Piper: Who are they? Yeah. Anyway, there you go. We'll see if they like it. If they don't copy and paste the one from last week's episode and we'll put it in.

Stuart Goldsmith: If you the listener managed to work out what did is Ecos surety do, you can Text James for a prize on what's your number?

James Piper: Good point.

Actually, we need to talk about prizes. We always ask our interviewee to nominate a prize

Actually, we need to talk about prizes. We didn't prep you first.

Stuart Goldsmith: O. Oh.

James Piper: We always ask our interviewee to nominate a prize or something that you can give to people. Ide how one prepped you. Have you got an idea?

Stuart Goldsmith: I've got one. Elephant box cup. Oh, you know elephant box. Brilliant brand. It's a steel cup, a coffee cup with, a cork sleeve. And my friend Joy and, business partner created this thing. And I honestly, I would say probably 7 out of every 10 times I go to any barista coffee place, they go, oh, that's a nice car.

James Piper: Amazing.

Stuart Goldsmith: That's a nice cup. It makes you feel great.

Robbie Staniforth: Ele it's the good one. Okay. O Can you put us in touch? How do we get a hold of one? Look it up.

Stuart Goldsmith: Elephantbox.comt. i mean, do you want me to Google that for you?

James Piper: We can find it. Lovely. Very exciting. Thank you. Okay, if you want to win the elephant box coffee cup, head over to our Instagram follow us rubbish podcast like the post w Steuart's face and make sure you follow us and then we will add you to the draw for that cup. Very exciting. Thank you.

Robbie Staniforth: That was a great intro.

James Piper: That is the end of the intro.

Stuart Goldsmith: We. I enjoyed it.

James Piper: I've never felt so comprehensive be introduced. I suspect some of it has been cut, but we are 37 minutes in on my recording.

Stuart says podcasting is like dating, right? If you wander around

Stuart Goldsmith: Now for the content.

Robbie Staniforth: I'm just moving to the next page of James'notes and, here we go. This is what James'notes say.

Stuart Goldsmith: Have a conversation.

Robbie Staniforth: Have a conversation. Pretty much general themes. He's got here.

James Piper: Lovely.

Robbie Staniforth: And there was nothing in it when we started the episode.

Stuart Goldsmith: Yes.

Robbie Staniforth: Saying he typing away.

Stuart Goldsmith: He's been typing those reminders actually. Do I see. I love this.

James Piper: You don't want to in you do not.

Stuart Goldsmith: Is the authenticity the peep behind the curtains.

James Piper: You do not want to box a comedian in, do you?

Robbie Staniforth: That is like rule one, you realise that?

James Piper: Do not box a comedian in. So, Stuart, nice to have you with us. Thank you for joining us for the.

Stuart Goldsmith: First time at this pleasure to be here.

James Piper: Oh, my God, we're going to lose listeners. Are we going to lose them again?

Stuart Goldsmith: I don't know.

Robbie Staniforth: This is a big game.

Stuart Goldsmith: You've got to do the thing you love. If you're having fun, you will shine out of. And if you lose a couple of.

Robbie Staniforth: stucking them among boring nervous.

James Piper: So, you know, though, can I just say, you never, ever, ever Hear that from someone who's got a podcast for 10 listeners. You only hear it from the person who's got a podcast. 25 million hours dating.

Stuart Goldsmith: It's like dating, right? If you wander around, go oh please, please love me someone. You get nowhere. If you're happy and confident in doing what you love, then you become attractive. So you, you have to have that in mind with podcasting.

James Piper: Okay. But just for the record, Robbbyie and I have just had a competition for number of reviews that we can individually get. So we have literally gone round going please love me over. Wowow.

Stuart Goldsmith: Okay. Yeah, so that's not quite like dating. How was it for you? Out of five stars, could you put it on this site?

James Piper: And we got 40 reviews. That's better than enough everidence in the world of dating.

Stuart Goldsmith: Well that's a good, that's a nice little gimmick. A review competition.

Robbie Staniforth: That's nice.

James has a podcast called the Comedians Comedian which has 25 million downloads

James Piper: So I really, as we've said, you've got a podcast. It's called the Comedians Comedian. Comedians. Comedian.

Stuart Goldsmith: What I try and do is challenge them on their preconceptions of themselves. But because it's been going for so long, big household name comedians, like Rosie Jones and Sindu V and people like that have all now. So they've been on the podcast in the last say six years and when they were on they have said things like oh, I'm so proud to be on this show at last because I used to listen to this when I was coming upow. so it's a sort of resource. It was never intended to be but it's kind of a resource for comedians. So I know that you know Josh Whittickan, Brett Goldstin, Sarah Millikan, Ross Noble, Ricky Gerai, they all listen to the show.

James Piper: Yeah.

Stuart Goldsmith: So it's a kind of. It has the ear of the comedy community. So it's very, very niche. It's not a huge 25 million downloads is over 13 years. It's not 25 million listeners. Y but it is. I am completely. I can look anyone in the eye and say this is good. This is a really good thing that I've made and it is empathic and it's open hearted and I'm trying to get to. It started off how do you write your jokes? And it quickly became how do you cope? How do you cope with a creative.

Robbie Staniforth: So will we ever be able

00:30:00

Robbie Staniforth: to say that? James?

James Piper: You we. I thought you were about to say will we ever be on it? I'll keep trying. Run five Years, Five years. I It's great. And I think you are being unnecessary modest because 25 million downloads over 13 days. It's a lot of days is insane.

Stuart Goldsmith: It's pretty nuts. And It has changed my life in a really. In a series of wonderful and unexpected wayses. I am unencumbered by fame.

James Piper: Yes.

Stuart Goldsmith: I went to a party recently. There are 150 people there and I thought, I bet one of them knows me from the pod. And a bloke came up and was like ohlo mate, I really love your podcast. I lovely. That's how famous I am. And also I'm invisible to Dickead if someone knows who I am. And this is pre Apollo. Apollo will be the biggest English mainstream thing I've ever done. But before that comes out and I'm not expecting it to, you know, catapult me anywhere. But if someone knows who I am, they pretty much can only know who I am if they're a nice thoughtful person.

Robbie Staniforth: So I just like that because it's a semi niche thing, 100% quite into what you're about.

Stuart Goldsmith: Exactly. To know you. And the reason it's good is because it's greatful and kind. Humberland. Exactly. It's a brilliant to be semi famous.

James Piper: You know that is a really nice thing because we. I've had. I wasn't going to tell the story because we had this this week, didn't we? I went to an event and it's our industry so high percentage of people who probably listen to the podcast.

Stuart Goldsmith: Sure.

James Piper: And yeah. I had this lady come up to me and say oh my God, I recognise you from your voice. I love the podcast. And just as she said that, a woman spun round next her and went, I was listening to it last night.

Stuart Goldsmith: It's so lovely. And podcasting is such an intimate and direct meeting.

James Piper: We were just.

Robbie Staniforth: Do you get recognised just for your voice?

Stuart Goldsmith: Yesus.

James Piper: It's so weird. It is, yeah.

Stuart Goldsmith: It's. Itn't nice. It love.

Robbie Staniforth: It's lovely. It's absolutely love.

Stuart Goldsmith: But I've got so many famous comedian friends. Like I've been up through the. So many groups of my friends and loads of have gone on to become like mega household name famous and they don't all like it.

James Piper: Ah.

Stuart Goldsmith: And they can't take it back. You're famous now. Have luck. So like the very manageable and measured way. And as I said, you know, with the Apollo it could get more recognition and because I'm speaking about my concern with the Apollo is, Scroruyus. Pip told me I should give someone else my phone for a couple of days because when it goes out it's all climate. And I think it will be not climate enough for climate people. And because I'm trying to do a mainstream attack.

James Piper: Interesting.

Robbie Staniforth: Why is this guy ding it down all the time?

Stuart Goldsmith: It will, exactly. Yeah.

Robbie Staniforth: There's the big closing's a serious message.

The closing routine is about, um, uh, flying

Totally emoji.

Stuart Goldsmith: And equally it'll wind up antilimate people. So the closing routine is about, flying. And if you fly business class, it generates three times the emissions of economy class. So that's the point I'm trying to make. But it's a story about flying, so it could. My friend Spencer Jones, brilliant, brilliant clown comedian. he said, no, this is good. This is because you're not Darth Vader, but nor are you an Ewok. That's great. I love it.

James Piper: Nice.

Robbie Staniforth: A ringing endorsement.

Stuart Goldsmith: I'm expecting there to be a bit of pushback.

James Piper: Well, we thought that about our podcast, didn't we? We were a bit, And I continued to be. We were a bit nervous that we are, we're not pro plastic. We're not pro. But we are trying to bring the reality to this. So where you might come into this room and say, flexible plastic bad. It all gets incinerated. And you can say, that would be very popular. Sure. We then might say, it's actually not a bad packaging material is the thing. And I genuinely thought we were going to get loads and loads of people complaining and giving us one star review saying, these guys are just too pro plastic. And we've always said, look, we'll just try and tell the truth. When we get things wrong, we'll correct it because we've got lots of people who listen who know loads more than we do on certain topics. Totally. Yre need to be open to it.

Stuart Goldsmith: You need to be open to the complexity and you need to be open to being wrong and changing your mind.

James Piper: I have been delighted that, you know, as we've created this community of listeners, how kind of into the truth everyone is.

Stuart Goldsmith: And I really like this is what I mean about. You have to do the thing that you honestly mean and feel and think. And the way fame works now is you don't need to chase it. You just do what you like and the people who are aligned with you will find you.

Robbie Staniforth: Yeah, no, that's a great bit of advice.

James Piper: Really nice.

Live at the Apollo is a hugely ambitious project for you

So BBCI player for Live at the Apollo, because it will have Been out by the time we watch it. Robbie and I will sit down with some m popcorn and watch it live. Please do come over to yours that.

Stuart Goldsmith: Yes 9:45 on Tuesday in the past from your listener perspective but it is really exciting and because I think the like as I've mentioned once or twice I've been going a while I pretty much kissed goodbyes to live the Apollo about 5 years ago I'made peaceful I was like, was it one of those.

Robbie Staniforth: Things that you had pinned up on the board or in your mind as a target or.

Stuart Goldsmith: It sort of was the last thing on my list of things to manifest and the one that I didn't pull off I wrote this list maybe 10 years ago. I want this agent. I want this. I want to do this, I want to do this, this festival, all the rest of it. The one thing I didn't pull off was I wanted my own like a drama TV show which is a bit funny where play I easily act something that's very close to me like Jonathan Creek, Alan Davies, you know, I mean you just basically just do yourself.

James Piper: And it's y second time Jonathan's Creek's been mentioned on this podcast.

Robbie Staniforth: Whoa.

James Piper: You got mentioned a few episod. I love Jon.

Robbie Staniforth: You do love Jo.

James Piper: So you know how many times when we end I will reflect

00:35:00

James Piper: on how many times Jonathan Creek got mentioned.

Stuart Goldsmith: I have worked separate circumstances with both, Alan Davis and Caroline Quentin. They're both veryar amazing. lovely.

James Piper: You ever see him again, tell him.

Stuart Goldsmith: James loves I am see again I will Very, very nice guy. Very, very funny guy. Amazing. But everything else, yes, that was on the board but years ago I kind of went, well, look, not for me and that's fine because that's what a comedy career is about. There are certain opportunities I've had, certain I thought, well, I'll never have or maybe that's passed me by or Im'm not what they're looking for.

Robbie Staniforth: Did you rationalise it and think, oh, that's maybe a bit too famous. Some of the people I know are a bit miserable because they can't have anonymity.

Stuart Goldsmith: I don't think Apollo is the kingmaker it once was. I don't think you can necessarily, hey, you're on Apollo Bang now you can do know, a national tour kind of thing. But it, it's a useful component. It's a great bit of tape and it could have this enormous life on YouTube. Who knows? Y Like I mentioned earlier on, as we speak I've got a Clip on my Instagram that's done like nearly 3 million views in the last two days. So. And that's not a non climate joke. You were asking about it before. But if what I want is for my climate jokes to do that. And that is a real possibility, you know.

James Piper: Interesting. Yeah.

Stuart Goldsmith: So the mission for me is not just get, you know, m the Apollo bit'great because I stood in a room of 4,000 people and I made them all laugh about the climate and I learned it is so hard to do that. And I spent 16 so maybe 18 months just dying on my assse in comedy clubs trying to.

Robbie Staniforth: So that's how jokes about were working the material.

Stuart Goldsmith: There were so many horrible, murdered, awful gigs.

Robbie Staniforth: Ok. Where.

Stuart Goldsmith: And I kind of stuck into. Because they Just a little bit of a. But that bit worked and that bit worked and it took me a long time to work out how to bring up this subject to a mainstream crowd who, unlike us, do not think about it all the time.

Robbie Staniforth: Yeah, sure.

Stuart Goldsmith: and without really they're like I've got a baby there a lot hear about. Exactly. So I've learned how to do that. So there was definitely a positive thing. I haven't finished learning how to do that, but I've started. There's definitely a positive thing of being in a big room and going. These mainstream people who have not opted in are laughing a lot at this message that I want to give. I've learned how to do that. Great. Beyond that, the other game plan is I want to get the right joke in front of the right CEO, someone with their hands on the levers. A real power such that when they're about to make a big decision, I have contributed to them making the right decision. So that's like a sort of overarching. I can do that without being famous. That's like, I want to get into spaces with people and support sustainability people and do events and launches and all the rest of it. because I want to be there going, hey, you know, I'll brief with a CSO and they'll go. All of our consultants, they think they're elites and so they want to fly business class all over the place. It's knackering our emissions, our scopes know. so I'll write jokes about that and then do that for them. So that's what I'm about is trying to go get the message in there.

James Piper: Lovely.

Do you have a favourite topic that you like to talk about on the podcast

Do you have a favourite topic that you like to talk about? So I like the flying one. That's great.

Stuart Goldsmith: But the flying one's very relatable. And it's important when I'm doing the material that. Not that I'm. Most jokes have got a victim. You know, most jokes have got something bad happens to someone. and there are the kind of polemic comedians who are like, the fossil fuel companies, man, we gotta destroy these or whatever.

Robbie Staniforth: Okay, yeah, sure.

Stuart Goldsmith: that kind of vis. They can be the victim. What I'm trying to do is connect with my audience by going, look, I'm an idiot, I'm a hypocrite. I do the wrong thing, just like all of us. And I'm still going to talk about it, even though I feel bad because I think otherwise. There is this chilling effect whereby part of the reason I never used to mention it was in case someone points out that I flew to Portugal last year. Oh, God, I've been green hushing myself.

Robbie Staniforth: I'm going to be whiter than white, don't we? And we're like, actually occasionally on the podcast we have to just admit, like I did on a very recent episode, I was in a rush. I was trying to clear the decks at home and I just threw some sunglasses in the general waste bin. Sure, I know they can be recycled and that Bristol City Council will come and pick them up if I put them in the right bin. But I was in the moment and I just chucked them. And it's like, that's the reality.

Stuart Goldsmith: When I do live gigs, I do this thing called Climate Confessions where I solicit exactly those kind of admissions from my audience. So I had like, some CEO was in the audience and he said that he. During the winter months, before he went to bed, he put his pyjamas in the tumble dryer.

James Piper: So that was his confession.

Stuart Goldsmith: And this all snug. And then my confession was, I made fun of him at the time and I went home and tried it. It was absolutely fantastic. But the point of that is to, undermine. Now, I didn't come up with the idea of the purity test. I've heard Solitaire Townsend talk about it. I don't know who's start but to, undermine this idea that if you are not perfectly carbon free, then you're not entitled of opinion. And that is madness.

Robbie Staniforth: Yeah, no one can talk about anything ever.

Stuart Goldsmith: Exactly.

Robbie Staniforth: Never mind climate.

Stuart Goldsmith: So we were saying before, I'm trying to be as vegan as my options. If there's a vegan option, I'll take that. If there isn't, I'm not going to get hung up about it because what.

James Piper: You can still have an opinion about veganism, not being a vegan, you can still have an opinion about the carbon around people'm.

Stuart Goldsmith: That's your key demographic. No, my key demographic is people that I want to turn into vegans. Yes, AB Although someone did say I thought this was funny. I haven't made a joke of this yet on, script wise. But someone said, aren't you preaching

00:40:00

Stuart Goldsmith: to the choir? And as they asked me, I was like, but people do do that. You preach to the choir, that they feel happy, empowered and they sing better. Like, you should preach to the choire.

James Piper: That's interesting, isn't it? Yeah, yeah. Ah, that's I sometimes feel like we're preaching the choir, but then you just build on your knowledge. You build on it, you go. Actually, your opinion, you know, someone who's listening to us, who gets in touch, is that your opinion is really interesting for us to build. It's why we have an additions and corrections section.

Stuart Goldsmith: Yeah.

Robbie Staniforth: Because when people write in and they say, I had no idea I was doing the wrong thing, I thought I.

Stuart Goldsmith: Was doing the right thing 100%. Me and my coffee machine going in the bin, I'm burning that as soon as I get home.

James Piper: We can talk you about the carbon of a wasted coffee machine.

Stuart Goldsmith: But that's no, no, I'KNOW about it because when I had the pod machine, I googled what's the most ethical thing to do to get. And they said, well, wait until your pod machine breaks.

James Piper: Yes.

Stuart Goldsmith: And then when it breaks and is no longer repairable service, then get another one.

I contacted one of the coffee pod companies about moving to reusable pods

James Piper: I think the interesting thing about coffee pods, that winds me up, which we haven't talked about the pod yet. I have pod on the pod, you.

Robbie Staniforth: Know, fresh material for.

James Piper: I hadn't decided when I was going to say it. Yeah, it's been, I've got repetition today.

Robbie Staniforth: A long time coming.

James Piper: No, no, I actually contacted one of the coffee pod companies, I won't name them. And I said, I'm thinking of moving to reusable pods because that is the best thing to, you know, move to reusable pod. You re not using packaging. And they came back to me and said, you will void your warranty, because your machine is more likely to break with a reusable pod and we.

Stuart Goldsmith: Will not fix it also. And I've tried reusable pods, never make them work.

James Piper: But I just think that's where the gap is. It's like imagine if that company said, we'll encourage you to use reusable pods. And we will fix it. But it's like printers, they make their money on ink. Right. And so they don't want you to use off branding.

Stuart Goldsmith: Avoid the wor. This is the Phoebus Group all over again. You'll know about the.

James Piper: I just think.

Stuart Goldsmith: Has that come up?

Robbie Staniforth: No.

Stuart Goldsmith: Have you not done that?

Robbie Staniforth: Do you know who they are? No.

Stuart Goldsmith: Gone. The Phoeus Group. You know Edison's light bulb is still going.

Robbie Staniforth: Yeah.

Stuart Goldsmith: They all were made to last forever and then a consortium called the Phoebus Group got together in the whatever hundreds it was. I'm not a data guy. Yeah. They got together and they said we have to make light bulbs less good because otherwise we weren't sell any. So they all got together and ruined light bulbs.

James Piper: There you go.

Stuart Goldsmith: So that's exactly that. Planned obsolescence.

James Piper: But you just think we. You will write a sustainability report Coffee pod company saying coffee pods are better than these types of coffee know in lots of ways. That's true. As we've discussed on episode two. But if you then don't follow it up with the. And we'll fix it. If you useusable pods and knacker your machine, you're not really in it for sustainability reasons. That's the last.

Stuart Goldsmith: This is the big thing.

James Piper: That's how companies have to evolve. I don't mind that they make coffee pub machines.

Stuart Goldsmith: Sure.

James Piper: As long as they then do the next step which is. And you can use the more environmentally friendly things.

But this is to me I ve try so hard to stay optimistic

Stuart Goldsmith: But this is to me I ve try so hard to stay optimistic and to flood the zone as Bann would say evil Banon. Flood the zone with optimism. And yet sometimes that does come up against the nature of capitalism and the fact of the. The reality the four or five year CEO cycle. So people have to come in, maximise profit for the shareholders and then leave. So who's incentivizing them for the company to be better 50 years from now.

James Piper: Yes.

Stuart Goldsmith: And those kind of big changes, like I always think you get it with the huge social media things when they go oh no, we can't put those safeguards in because if we put those safeguards in the app wouldn't work. And you go, well then the app doesn't work.

Robbie Staniforth: Y.

Stuart Goldsmith: You know what I mean?

Robbie Staniforth: There's integral part to it being a good thing.

Stuart Goldsmith: Exactly. Exactly.

If you had an environmental superpower, what would it be

James Piper: If you had an environmental superpower, what would it be? Visibility to use it. So an example.

Stuart Goldsmith: I'm sorry, it has to be environmental ex.

James Piper: The key.

Stuart Goldsmith: Flight. Right. Just wingless flight. I just flying myself around the place.

James Piper: Okay, and what are you going toa do with flight?

Stuart Goldsmith: I'll just fly around.

Robbie Staniforth: Great idea.

Stuart Goldsmith: I mean, superpower.

James Piper: Oh, my God.

Stuart Goldsmith: Zero carbon.

Robbie Staniforth: Give everyone the power of flight and then no one needs to use carbon.

James Piper: Oh, that's okay. Now, we like to build on these environmental superpowers. So how fast are you going? Because it could take you like, like three weeks to get to America in Peter Pan.

Stuart Goldsmith: Okay, well, if you've seen what's the movie?

James Piper: What are we doing?

Stuart Goldsmith: You're going Super Sonic Chronicles. The very realistic kind of veritan O yeah. Thing where they're like, you can fly and they immediately freeze and'you mounted snowboarding. And the other thing. Well, funnily enough, there's just to walk back and possibly choose a different superpower O I something in the realm of superpowers that actually really excites.

James Piper: So hang on. Not only are you breaking the format, but you're picking two superpower.

Stuart Goldsmith: Yes. So, okay, this is. This is what my daughter would say. She's six. You go, what superpower are you gonna have? And she go, I'm having all powers. That's like, my power is all powers.

James Piper: And you wish to highlight two of them.

Stuart Goldsmith: Do you. Do you remember Heroes?

James Piper: Yes.

Stuart Goldsmith: The TV series which was not good. but the first series was.

James Piper: Yeah, yeah, the first couple were good. And then derailed.

Stuart Goldsmith: So in that. Do you remember what was the guy's name? There'two Japanese guys. One of them was called Hero and he could stop time m and teleport. He had kind of God like power and he had a mate whose name I don't remember. And he didn't have any powers and was just a

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Stuart Goldsmith: helper. And then later, as the series went on, it became apparent that he did have a latent superpower that developed and his power was he would boost whatever other superheroes he was around. right. And at the time, I remember thinking, oh, that's a nice bit of writing. But obviously that's not the superpower anyone's going to choose. And increasingly, as someone who has like, I've just led a charmed life. I have just. I'm trying to say this without swearing. I have just mucked about for a living and been.

James Piper: I wonder what that word could have become. It isn't the one you're thinking of.

Stuart Goldsmith: It's much more floral than that.

James Piper: We did brief Stuart that we don't like to tick the explicit box.

Stuart Goldsmith: Theod Absolutely fair. I've had a charmed life. I've just had fun for a living. Yes. There's been risk and yes, there have been horrible, kind of awful death gigs along the. But I have led a charmed life. And so these days, as a dad and as a man, I really want to help more than I want to star. Someone got in touch and said, I'm a hostage negotiator.

James Piper: He was like, what?

Stuart Goldsmith: And this guy, lovely guy with re. Very friendly still. And, he was moving into being a coach and he said, can I try this personality test software stuff on you? So I answered hundreds of questions for him. Me, I had a laugh and one and the stuff came back. This is 10 years ago, the stuff came back and said, you score very low on wanting to be a star. And I said, well, this doesn't work at all. but you score very high on wanting to help. And I was like, no, it's rubbish. And then over the. I keep thinking about it over the years, even though what I think I want might be flight or teleportation or invisibility, I think what I want and I think what maybe the highest and best use of my time is to be that guy from Hero who helps, who just boosts other people. So if my sustainability superpower can be.

Robbie Staniforth: Elevated, that's how you amplify your affair.

Stuart Goldsmith: Maybe amplifying, but also just making pictures, preaching to the choir, making the choir feel good, making sustainability people feel less burnt out and swinging wildly between hope and despair and actually feeling like they said, yeah, totally.

Robbie Staniforth: Well, me complete.

Stuart Goldsmith: Yeah, yeah, yeaheah. So I think that power, the power to kind of boost. Not necessarily there are people who are better amplifiers of people than me, but to make people feel good. But the people who deserve to feel good the most because they're the ones just that lovely's the line in andor I've burned my life for a sunrise I'll never see.

You can help boost our podcast by telling everyone to listen

You know, the people who are devoting themselves to trying to fix the world when so many people are finding it so much easier, of course, to ignore it and run away from it and hideing it or deny it and what have you weaponise it. I want to help them. So that's my power than amazing.

James Piper: And Stuart, no pressure, but you can help boost our podcast and enact your power by telling everyone to listen.

Stuart Goldsmith: Very happy to do that. Very happy to do that.

James Piper: Very kind. Thank you.

Hello to all the new listeners that Stuart's brought along

So welcome to all the new listeners that Stuart's brought along and, we're delighted that you've had a bit of a revision episode I've had.

Stuart Goldsmith: Hello to the new listeners I've brought along. As you know, I know all 20 of you by name. Yes, it is you. Great to see you.

James Piper: I knew this would be a car crash. But, like, in a great way. Like a good car's's a good car crash's a positive car crash.

Stuart Goldsmith: Do you have, kind of subtitles for your episodes? It's a Good Car crash.

James Piper: Okay. This episode will be called A Good Car Crash. Thank you all so much for listening. Thank you so much to such a good time. Thank you. And thank you, Robbie, for joining us. Bye.

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